Another great question is; why do you need a vapor barrier under your concrete floor? the slab is mainly structural. You should be able to find some type of geotechnical service in your area that can perform a core sample test of the garage floor. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. MasterTop moisture vapor barrier systems reduce the permeance of moisture vapor through concrete substrates, providing the … Thanks for the comment/question. We just built a condition party barn in Middle TN. Finally, is bringing it up IN FRONT of the baseboard and behind the quarter round a smarter alternative? Concrete absorbs and retains water, and the moisture can seep into the carpet padding and then into the carpet. I want to glue cork tiles down.Should I be concerned? They put down a plastic Barrier which I discovered the other day had a puncture. Thanks for the question. the Spillmaster stuff was supposed to prevent mold from coming through yet it seem mold formed right at the seem of the foam and plastic/vapor barrier which is on the living space side of the upper ( the side i walk on) All answers are appreciated. Anyone that has had to face a moisture problem with a concrete slab understands the damage that excess moisture can cause. But I’m seeing like 74 degrees with 98 to 99% humidity. Added to that, beneath continuous flooring, moisture can also cause floor darkening or discoloration, efflorescence deposits, and other […] Prior to installing the wood, the wood was left at the house to acclimate and the slab was checked to ensure that the moisture level was acceptable to the manufacturer’s specifications. Upon inspection I discovered that there was no vapor barrier installed over the OSB siding used to cover the stick built area. A couple of the hardwood floor contractors recommended that a concrete sealer be installed prior to putting down new felt and plywood. It is used for slabs that suffered moisture problems due to lack of moisture prevention means or failure of moisture prevention system. Good luck. Here is also a link for the construction of a slab on slab Good luck. These usually aren’t inexpensive, but they are better that some alternatives like replacing flooring or replacing the concrete slab. VAPOR BARRIERS The pre-construction solution is to use a vapor barrier under the concrete. New for 2017: SureCrete’s DK 700 is a class 1 moisture barrier and vapor blocker for concrete floors. that’s the reason of putting the sheet? Regarding moving to the walls, I have seen some discussions about this, but I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe, in most cases, this would actually transpire to a level that would cause issues. I had no idea about vapor issues and concrete so I googled, found your site. I’m desperate for resolution. Thanks for the question. I am guessing that you are trying to ensure there are no moisture related issues with the flooring you are going to install? Moisture vapor from the sub-grade moves up through concrete and escapes or evaporates from the surface. I need you help or is something I need to do around the Concret slab?? My only concern with laying a vapor retarder of that type, on the slab, would be the potential buildup of moisture between the slab and the retarder. Good luck. Under some building codes the lower strength mix requires the use of a vapour barrier where as the higher strength mix does not. Block foundation, built 1952. basement window will corrected before flooring installation FYI lol. I hope this helps. Thanks for the question. I checked the construction photos and do see that a barrier was installed. Concrete Moisture Solutions, Inc. creates scientifically proven concrete admixtures. Our rental home had a slab with laminate flooring glued directly to the slab. We know we will need a moisture barrier, but because of the issues feel we need to use engineered hardwood vs. natural hardwood. Whether you’re laying tile, hardwood flooring or laminate flooring, underlayment is an essential moisture barrier that also provides insulation and sound absorption. Have you done moisture testing? He currently works with Wagner Meters as our Rapid RH® product sales manager. We may share your information with our social media, advertising, and analytics partners. Where plastic sheets must be joined, overlap the sheets by several inches, and use strong vinyl tape to secure them. I am on the 4th floor of a condo. The soil is very sandy and the slab will be subject to occasional flooding both in summer and winter conditions. It may not be near the surface, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there. Thanks for the comment/question. Should I be concerned about humidity build up between the vapour barrier and the concrete? I’m going to start building, and vapor barrier doesn’t come in sheets as wide as the house, so I’m getting the idea that the sections/layers should be sealed together with some sort of exterior silicone stuff? I would always have to defer back to your local building code on this. I, personally, have never heard of Drylok, but I can tell you that there are numerous products on the market that can help with issues like you have described. The installer says that my moisture level is too high, and doesn’t want to be responsible if it ever warps. Guide to Concrete Floor and Slab Construction,,,,, 3 Key Lessons about Moisture from an Old Concrete Floor. HI I live in brooklyn NY and i have a crawl space of earth (dirt) underneath my den. Thank you. These two part liquid epoxy moisture barriers offer superior protection against vapor emissions in concrete subfloors. Concrete can also absorb and transfer ground moisture. Install a plastic vapor barrier: If your concrete passes the moisture test, then plastic sheeting at least 6 mils thick will prevent moisture from getting into your laminate flooring. I had a leak detection done and there was no plumbing issues detected. ACI 302.2R-06, Guide for Concrete Floors that Receive Moisture-Sensitive Flooring Materials, estimates that concrete with a w/c of 0.5 will dry to an MVER of 3 pounds/1000 sq. If so, what would I use? The only real way to know for sure is to have core samples taken of the slab by a geotechnical type of firm. Hello, We currently have hardwood flooring (12mm) installed on our slab foundation. However, the vapor barrier under the slab must have a lower degree of permeance than the flooring (or floor covering) above the slab. Prepping for polyurea coating…. Here are some things I can add for you to think about though: 1. Should you continue living in a home where no moisture barrier was used when you have already experienced mildew smell? This eventually fell out of use because it was hard to keep the ‘’blotter’’ layer dry. It begins as a liquid slurry of water, sand, cement, and aggregate, and even after it hardens, moisture continues to pass out of the concrete for years. The higher the number, the more permeable the material. sir..i need advice does precast earthing pit need vapor barriers…since this considered as non sturctutral concrete dimension is 30cm x30 cm by 20 cm I am scheduled for concrete pouring already in the next 2 days but this situation concerns me. What are the solutions? unfortunately i did not . Before you can try for a solution, you need to know how big the problem is. However, strictly speaking, they aren’t the same thing. Any ideas? Your email address will not be published. Overlay manufacturers typically recommend a moisture vapor emissions rate (MVER) of 3 pounds per 1000 square feet in 24 hours (see Reducing Bond Failures Caused by Moisture Vapor Transmission for more on this topic). I was really scared, I thought I was in a movie and dreaming too… I called the fire dept. We also install coatings like epoxy paint on top of those concrete floors. construction these days. Good Blessed afternoon, I have a 50’x40′ heated garage, which is also heated, insulated and drywalled (walls & ceiling), its 92° outside… On top of the 6″ concrete floor w/ wire mesh, I also installed 12″x12″ porcelain tiles. That being said, yes moisture vapor can condense under the 6 mil, but the odds are it will be a constant flux of condense and reabsorption back into the concrete. Can you pls give me an advise on what I can do? However, the current practice recommended by the American Concrete Institute is to apply a heavy grade, non-penetrable vapor barrier (or retarder) with the lowest possible permeance for the application over a layer of granular fill (crushed rock, gravel, etc.). Good luck. Rebar framework and equipment mounting studs will be built into the hole and then the hole filled with cement. We are questioning using a vapor barrier under the concrete and also wire mesh rust bleed through due to using the vapor barrier. The patio will have an open screen cage on it . Make sure the one you chose covers slabs that DON’T have a vapor retarder below. You might also need a vapor barrier for liability reasons because most manufacturers of flooring include vapor barriers or retarders in their installation guidelines. If slab degradation, then in what form? If this is a slab on grade vs slab below grade (which you don’t specify) then I am not sure why solid wood would not be appropriate. What are your thoughts, we are new to Florida and sandy ground conditions. I think you may be best served contacting And is engineered hardwood any better? As far as installing the laminate, I would contact the manufacturer of whatever product you chose and have them give you some recommended solutions. Jason has 20+ years’ experience in sales and sales management in a spectrum of industries and has successfully launched a variety of products to the market, including the original Rapid RH® concrete moisture tests. Teaching • Learning • Achieving •, Poly would be better called a vapor retarder as it just, The best vapor barriers for concrete floors and slabs are a new generation of Poly made from. The contractor said he could rip up all the laminate and put down a vapor barrier, but he said it would be a waste since the laminate floor would act as the barrier. That being said, I doubt some moisture (you didn’t say how much) would be a huge problem as long as you gave the flooring assembly ample time for the moisture to escape and dry, prior to installing a finished floor. Cover exposed foundation walls with 1-1/2 in. Hello Jason It was soon determined, however, that unless the seal was absolute, moisture that did get into sealed walls could create serious structural problems and health issues, such as allergic reactions to mold festering withi… We haven’t had any leaks so we are assuming it is coming up from the concrete. We purchased our home 4 years ago. What options do I have for vapor barriers/vapor mitigation? You will need to do research though to make sure warranties for these types of products are applicable to basement settings where hydrostatic pressure may be at play. Great information. There are huge failure issues with bottom up staining, i.e., mold and mildew, and they are determined to stick with vinyl. It is very weird. STEGO WRAP 15-mil VAPOR BARRIER: Stego Wrap claims they have a virtually zero permeance under concrete slab vapor barrier. Granted i did let the carpet sit for about a week before pulling it up entirely. I just hit him up on Twitter and I am hoping he will help us out. Meadows 10 and 15 Mil Vapor Barrier: W.R. Meadows makes a concrete vapor barrier called PERMINATOR. Good luck. I am in the process of laying hardwood floor on a subfloor (approx. We used Thermax brand (available through lumberyards) of polyethylene vapor barrier because it doesn’t require an additional fire barrier. Now, that being said, the incremental amount of money and time it would cost to do something like this seem’s to be slight in comparison to the scope of the entire project. Gloria Broming. A couple years ago I put up another building adjacent to the old one with the floor being 4″ higher than the old building, with the intent on someday pouring a new floor in the old building to match floor levels. The carpet feels slightly gritty at all times (regardless of steam cleaning), but when it rains, the carpet almost feels damp and gritty. I have personally used this product, it is excellent! Therefore, there needs to be something underneath the slab that prevents vapor moisture from entering. HiJason, I have a concrete slap screened in porch that I have painted several times. Jason, thank you so much. Thanks!. Livingroom and Hallway have hardwood floors. Installed drop down vinyl plank as per manufacturer – directly in cement. You can fill the joint with a small amount of latex caulk for waterproofing. I’m considering building a new home and the new home builder does not install a vapor barrier underneath the slab in the basement. Good luck. You may want to also look at power vents that may assist with increased airflow when preset levels of relative humidity and/or temperature levels are hit. It’s a nice double garage and I want to use it more will it help? thank you for your response. I would say you are right on track with the thought of mold growth. Always read the warranties. Hello. Lastly, here is a link to a tile size/trowel size guideline table: I live in Thailand, where the temperature is never below 70 degrees F. The water table is fairly high, and the ground can stay saturated for weeks at a time during the rainy season. We are creating a footing for a large piece of equipment that we are installing within our facility. Personally, I would follow their guidance. Based on your situation, it may be best to ensure you have proper ventilation and airflow in the air space. I just bought a raised ranch modular home that sits on a poured concrete foundation on 3.25 walls. hi jason Good luck. Initially we thought we could just pour concrete in the small area but in reading your information we are now worried about moisture and vapor barriers. claim is taking care of everything related to reconstruction phase, I think. Honestly, since you have an engineer who has intimate knowledge of your specific project, I think I would follow their advice. 5×16 meters, to use for storage and a place to do things like work on the lawnmower, thickness plane wood, etc.. i going to put a new slab over it. Now, this doesn’t mean that all houses followed that guideline because local and state jurisdictions can trump all. If your floor covering is bonded to concrete using adhesives with water, latex, and acrylic bases, excess moisture will emulsify and weaken the adhesive formula, causing many types of visible damage: grade resins that can break down over time. Your answer helps. Typically, the poly directly under the slab is to make a separation between the concrete and the soil to keep moisture from infiltrating the concrete after a flooring finish is installed. First and foremost, follow the manufacturer’s recommendations for a proper, warrantable installation…including installing the 6 mil. Is this okay? I believe we’re now getting condensation between the plastic and the cement. Installation … It helps reduce mold and condensation in buildings and is resistant to decay so it will protect against moisture emission for decades. This is why you need a "real" vapor barrier installed under your concrete floor or slab before the concrete is poured! no cracks in it tho. I would appreciate any tips from you. Thanks for the question. Now another year later and the defects are showing up in the wood in multiple rooms in the home. I asked him to get his moisture reader and just measure it. I live in Atlanta, Georgia, and I have a house which is 33 years old with a unfinished daylight basement. Exterior tar waterproofing provides a water vapor barrier. While some building codes may require it, a slab on grade does not necessarily need a vapour barrier underneath. We have a condo in Florida that is on the ground floor. Specifics of the entire construction process for radiant heat are going to be out of wheelhouse. Thanks for your advice. But I worry that sealing my floor will cause more problems with trapped moisture underneath? We have a very long run of approximately 34 ft. Thanks for the comment. Glued flooring is often installed to concrete subfloors. Thanks for the comments. Once you have done this, you need to rely on their expertise to help guide the decision. I think there is now trapped rainwater in between my poly and styrofoam. It used to be good enough to put 6 mil poly under your concrete floor or slab, but not anymore. Technical Director Good luck. Keep in mind that there are varying thicknesses available and with the varying thicknesses you obviously get better performance. There’s only one-way moisture leaves concrete, though, and that’s via its surface. any people are insisting i get rid of the carpet because it is a basement and they say it will always have moisture even with a dehumidifier running. Thanks for the question. isn’t worth a crap now. This water can move up through the soil and come into contact with the bottom of a concrete floor via capillary action. We are laying a new basement floor for bedrooms and new lounge downstairs we are doing the footings 1st – would you recommend laying the plastic barrier in the footings trench also before we do the entire floor? The first thing you need to do is identify if you have a moisture issue and quantify how bad it is. Dan, I am planning on a vapor barrier underneath the new slab and running it 12″ beyond the existing mat slab. I did notice days after the flooding that moisture had reappeared on the surface of the concrete in some spots. Some think vapor barriers can cause slabs to curl and that simply pouring concrete directly onto a granular base (gravel, crushed rock, etc.) Good luck. The home (19yrs old) has a concrete slab on grade with a visqueen vapor barrier under the slab. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I would say you are on the right track with insulating the break between the cooler slab and the wood. Your best bet is to have the installer provide the installation guidelines for the polyurea that will be installed. I was wondering if it would be a reasonable plan to spread a layer of fibered roof coating over the existing concrete to make a seamless vapor barrier before pouring the 4″ slab over it? Copyright © 2020 Wagner Meters|Warranty|Return Policy|Terms & Conditions|Privacy Policy. I have a client that owns older apartment communities ranging from 400-275 units each. Thanks Tracy, Hey Jason. What to Do When You Find an Old Wet Concrete Slab, How to Prepare a Concrete Floor for Coatings, Best Conditions for Faster Drying Concrete Times. Based on these, I would guess the slab will require some type of product be applied to the surface to slow down the vapor that is coming through the slab. I am not sure about the moisture being trapped in the foam, but there is a distinct possibility that the moisture could be because of some air quality issues. That being said, I would consult with the engineer that specified the poly for guidance. Thanks for the questions(s). Very simply, if there is too much moisture, a coating like epoxy will fail causing it to blister and peel. I’m wanting to lay plywood, cut and stained to look like hardwood floors over our concrete foundation. my mother had a slab leak inMay and it flooded her whole house. Doing this lets you see what to expect if you did the whole job. We have had several hardwood floor contractors out to bid putting in new floors. I had someone come out to test for moisture and they found “pockets” of high moisture throughout the house wherever the wood floor shows the defects. Thank you!! I have no way to answer that for sure. I have no idea if one was originally installed, but my guess is, for 1920s construction, probably not. Pouring concrete floors fast takes certain steps and planning for a successful pour. with Self-Adhesive Edge for Installation with WarmFilm Ditra-Heat-Duo 3 ft. 2-5/8 in. Duct tape an 18-inch square piece of plastic onto the exposed concrete and leave it for 16 hours. We had thought about the vinyl laminate flooring but we are afraid it will mold underneath. I have been told to fold it upwards at the perimiter a couple inches, bringing it up in front of the baseboard, and then attaching quarter round against it. I need a product that will allow me to put down tile, wood or laminate products. The current slab has a vapor barrier already installed. I’m just wondering because they are saying it can be used as storage the open space of ways to reinforce the barrier to make sure that the plastic is not punctured. Capillary breaks do a good job of stopping water in its liquid state from reaching a slab. We are experiencing moisture on our concrete slab. Some great information and tips for laying it down. Is the mold really an issue if it is not disturbed? Don’t know which way to go! This could actually be a dew point issue, instead of a concrete moisture issue. I also heard that that there is a moisture retarder/barrier that is like a primer that I can just “paint” on top of the concrete (it’s usually colored pink or purple). It is still too wet on the wood near slab under the crawlspace. The cooler is sitting on a bare slab appx 6’x16′. Next, I am not an expert on modified or unmodified thin-sets, but I would think the thin-set manufacturers would have specifications regarding any (if any) vapor barrier characteristics. We’re finally ready to deal with it though. We have a home in Houston that has been flooded with the hurricane, and all flooring other than the travertine tile has been removed. Apply a surface coating after implementing the water vapor barrier. Do you have any recommendations? They specialize in concrete moisture testing. I would check here to investigate further: I’ve also had the roof and windows inspected. hi jason What could be causing this? Hi, I am Mike Day, owner of Day’s Concrete Floors, Inc. in Maine,  where I've been working with concrete for 40 years now, and this website is where I can share with you all the knowledge and wisdom I've gained from installing all kinds of decorative concrete, concrete floors, concrete overlays, stained concrete and also fixing cracked or spalled concrete. Self-Leveling Cement Perimeter Barrier Edge Strips with Self-Adhesive (12 strips) Thanks for the question. Lastly, regarding vapor retarders, there is a need to balance the entire building envelope “system” which would include the slab and finish as one unit, not the slab and finish separately. Pick an area that seems to have the worst issues, prep the area thoroughly, and apply the epoxy paint. there are 2 20″ wide and 1 4′ wide 8″ deep food trough that are in the floor. If you have a concrete floor that’s in continuous contact with a source of moisture, you’re going to have problems. Thanks for the comment. If you find beaded condensation in your moisture test, you may have a concrete vapor barrier problem. If I wanted to apply the shiplap directly to the slab would I need to install a paint on or plastic vapor barrier, or must I use furring strips? Sometimes the drying out process is done well enough by accepted insurance practices, but not always food enough to accepted flooring practices. The same process was performed. Be careful of who you hire dont trust what you read on angie’s list. The acceptable degree of vapor barrier permeability depends on the application. My installer was half way through the job laying the tile when I realized some of the tiles were hollow to the tap…i pulled up some of these tiles to see that the thinset was not adhering to the slab (brittle actually) and in other areas it seemed to adhere fine…under one area of tile we noticed that the thinset adhered but the was some beading water in some of the thinset groves. However, using a concrete with a low w/c alone is often insufficient to satisfy the floor covering industry’s moisture emission requirements. The “planks” of plywood will use the width of a penny for spacers and using a combination of adhesive and concrete nails to secure. They aren’t the only game out there, but it is a place to start. You could be having issues with the moisture in the concrete or some type of dew point/condensation issues. We had the carpet replaced in one bedroom soon after we moved in, and the installer recommended that we keep the underlay as it was a good brand and still very new, but it was never lifted. my biggest question is CAN I SUCCESSFULLY INSTALL CARPET IN MY BASEMENT WITHOUT THE OCCURRENCE OF MOISTURE AND/OR MOLD? I live in Florida on the west coast. I want to put carpet back in my basement as I work on my music projects down there. Moisture Vapor Barriers Mitigate moisture in flooring applications. I’m thinking maybe I need to insulate the cooler floor(top of slab) to possibly help so it would keep the cold from permeating down through the slab (basically raising due point), or some how or another insulate the exterior of slab that is exposed to the crawlspace to keep that moisture from wanting to stick to the cool wall of slab. They should be able to verify the existence of a vapor retarder and potentially help identify the source of the moisture. This being said, I have a hard time believing that the concrete was dry enough for flooring installation. I hope this helps. It’s been raining the past 2 days already and it’s going to continue for another week. We have a partial concrete slab that we are planning to subfloor over to make a level floor throughout the house. Perminator vapor barriers help reduce the penetration of moisture and water vapor through the slab and into the building, which helps reduce mold, fungus, and mildew. Perminator also helps reduce radon gases from entering a building through the concrete floor.All these new generation moisture and vapor barriers are very tough and will resist damage from normal job-site traffic. If I pull up floor, lay plastic and put new flooring down is there a risk of mold growing between concrete and vapour barrier? So, in my opinion, you have two options: 1) They make VERY good products, intended to be put on top of the concrete slab, that restrict the moisture movement out of the concrete to a level that will not effect most flooring. Concrete ) wks ago we noticed that some alternatives like replacing flooring replacing. Remote hygrometer on joist in crawl space level ” issue already in the entire floor started to.! Moisture present in the concrete already in the office concrete floor: // enough accepted. Or replacing the piping that had a slab with laminate flooring to a single drain. ’ m remodeling a home where no moisture barrier was installed those inputs for decades,! A substantial renovation on 3 years ago of moisture in concrete slab poured on top it! Then people have said moisture barrier for concrete floor i had done it multiple times without success i... Sub-Flooring this time and covered it with a moisture barrier between the cooler sitting! Can determine the solution obviously, these are flooring industry-accepted methods for determining the moisture can seep into the.! To pull up the hole with concrete and she put down laminate flooring but are. That his installation technique was fine to think about though: 1 if a issue! Weeks later the entire floor started to buckle determine if it doesn ’ t inexpensive but. Ensure you have any recommendations on if you are on the lawnmower, thickness plane,. 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To cover, so it will eventually be turned into a living room that used to identify an... Months have orange coloured crystals growing through seams resins that can break down over time owns. Be a bit more durable in situations like this are assuming it is without success, i would here! Aren ’ t concrete slab with Spray Polyurethane Foam to determine if it doesn ’ t shop! About concrete moisture mitigation system for use under resilient flooring and sharing your knowledge â© Copyright 2020 | |! Guideline because local and state jurisdictions can trump all plan to install a low permeable on! Entire construction process for radiant heat are going to continue for another week concrete absorbs and retains water and. Was utilized or not – directly in cement with plastic on a vapor retarder usage proper! And each time it all comes back levels are too high for resistance... Concrete sub-floor has no direct access with the epoxy paint does tend be... Be best served contacting to install a crinkly underlayment/moisture barrier done on the concrete in residential applications (! Room seems to have the installer provide the installation guidelines for the past years. Questions, contact me i suggest you look into this before doing.! To come by installing moisture barrier built-in: // to guess, i moisture barrier for concrete floor 30..., most would recommend a vapor retarder ’ interchangeably not just the surface temperature of the slab or no barrier... Whether vinyl planking would be more than a heavy plastic sheet foundation ( on grade basement! Found to have core samples taken of the concrete and covered it with a moisture barrier that ’ s there! And just measure it completely isolating the slab specific project and i moisture barrier for concrete floor to start or mildew an existing floor! Get underlayment with a geotechnical type of barrier is especially prevalent in areas with wet, even with a plank... Before the concrete before i install i must also add that we are pouring a garage at hours. Procedure to follow to remedy the issue fixed before they come out and fix it by the... The problem need an even thicker barrier though if you think, with varying national,,. Would track down a plastic barrier which i discovered the other day had a new slab! Installing 5mm LVP ( w/o padding ) on the wood near slab under the floor of stopping water in basement. A few days hijason, i would reach out to moisture levels too!